Posts by Joe Grundy

36

How did you feel about attending another church?

by digderidoo in

jw
friends

this question is for those who have attended another church since leaving the jw's.. i have considered attending a local church, firstly out of curiosity and secondly because i do enjoy discussing the bible with people and learning new thoughts on scripture.. the only thing that stops me though is crossing that line.

i guess it was a bit like when i first posted here, it took me ages to pluck up the courage and now what was the big deal?.

did anyone else have this feeling before attending another church, that feeling of crossing the line of no return.

Joe Grundy

I am not and never have been a JW, so please take my opinions with that in mind. I am also now a 'worldly' atheist.

I have been to a couple of JW 'meetings' - and a couple was all it took to recognise the brainwashing that was going on. Interestingly, at the first one some old dear got the microphone and started mentioning Russell, 'our beloved pastor' but she soon lost the mic. All very different to the spontaneity I was used to.

(A sad side-note. One of my friends here, an 80+ guy, had the privilege of reading out the paragraph in the WTBTS mag at the meeting. He was a really nice guy, and I am friends with his widow. Last year, after having being diagnosed with terminal cancer, he drowned himself in our communal swimming pool. Poor old bugger, I think, after wasting so much of his life devoted to a lie. And the faithful and loving JWs who would rally round the widow? Forget it! It's us 'worldlies' who do that. Rant over.)

I am Welsh, and we have a tradition of singing and music. If you have never heard a Welsh Male Voice Choir, you have missed out. And if you've never heard the festival of 1000 Welsh male voices singing old hymns, you won't understand.

There is a word in Welsh - 'hiraeth' - which means the longing for the homeland. It is inextricably linked with old Welsh hymns. Even if you question the reality of the words, it can get to you.

And, I guess, that's true of much church/chapel music.

45

i am 20 minutes away from a sheparding call........

by oompa in

jw
friends

first one in at least 5 years.......wife does not want to sit in and i just told her if she does not, then i am not either.....this loss of faith thingy has really been rough on our marriage.......i have decided to not bring up a single issue i have........i will relate to them my illustration of the taxi driver who keeps giving out bad directions i posted yesterday.......i think what will surprise them maybe is that my loss of faith goes way beyond wt.......i have lost virtually faith in the bible and god......one has already told the "first place to start is to get going to the meetings again!"....lmao!!!.........

i hope their programed brains can grasp that maybe you need faith in a god first.....then find out what method (or book) he is using to educate us if he wants to....and then if you feel the need....look around to find out if there is a group of folks who all have similar beliefs.........this should be interesting...........oompa.

Joe Grundy

Just a comment on the title of this thread.

'Shepherding' is of course short for 'sheep-herding'. Have you ever seen a real shepherd working with sheep-dogs and a flock of sheep? It is quite amazing. The shepherd has the overview and communicates with the sheep-dogs by voice or whistled commands. The dogs herd the flock until they are exactly where required - and can separate individual sheep into pens, etc., even though the dogs don't understand why they're doing it. Trained sheep-dogs will herd sheep even in the absence of the shepherd, although, of course, the results will be random and of no practical use - it's just what they are trained and conditioned to do: 'there's a sheep, I'll go herd it somewhere'.

I don't know whether this analogy is of use or not, but I offer it anyway.

45

i am 20 minutes away from a sheparding call........

by oompa in

jw
friends

first one in at least 5 years.......wife does not want to sit in and i just told her if she does not, then i am not either.....this loss of faith thingy has really been rough on our marriage.......i have decided to not bring up a single issue i have........i will relate to them my illustration of the taxi driver who keeps giving out bad directions i posted yesterday.......i think what will surprise them maybe is that my loss of faith goes way beyond wt.......i have lost virtually faith in the bible and god......one has already told the "first place to start is to get going to the meetings again!"....lmao!!!.........

i hope their programed brains can grasp that maybe you need faith in a god first.....then find out what method (or book) he is using to educate us if he wants to....and then if you feel the need....look around to find out if there is a group of folks who all have similar beliefs.........this should be interesting...........oompa.

Joe Grundy

And sometimes 50 is an ideal age to sit down and re-evaluate your life and do something about it (in my experience, anyway).

45

i am 20 minutes away from a sheparding call........

by oompa in

jw
friends

first one in at least 5 years.......wife does not want to sit in and i just told her if she does not, then i am not either.....this loss of faith thingy has really been rough on our marriage.......i have decided to not bring up a single issue i have........i will relate to them my illustration of the taxi driver who keeps giving out bad directions i posted yesterday.......i think what will surprise them maybe is that my loss of faith goes way beyond wt.......i have lost virtually faith in the bible and god......one has already told the "first place to start is to get going to the meetings again!"....lmao!!!.........

i hope their programed brains can grasp that maybe you need faith in a god first.....then find out what method (or book) he is using to educate us if he wants to....and then if you feel the need....look around to find out if there is a group of folks who all have similar beliefs.........this should be interesting...........oompa.

Joe Grundy

Oompa - I never was a JW so have no personal experience.

I am worldly (very), 'bad association' (for sure).

But I feel for you and extend support and best wishes.

36

How did you feel about attending another church?

by digderidoo in

jw
friends

this question is for those who have attended another church since leaving the jw's.. i have considered attending a local church, firstly out of curiosity and secondly because i do enjoy discussing the bible with people and learning new thoughts on scripture.. the only thing that stops me though is crossing that line.

i guess it was a bit like when i first posted here, it took me ages to pluck up the courage and now what was the big deal?.

did anyone else have this feeling before attending another church, that feeling of crossing the line of no return.

Joe Grundy

I am not and never was a JW, so take my opinions with that in mind.

When I was a 'christian' in the general not JW meaning I went to a number of churches/chapels/call them what you will.

More often than not, though I could not share their beliefs, I was genuinely impressed by the genuine warmth, sincerity and care that many of the people exhibited.

45

i am 20 minutes away from a sheparding call........

by oompa in

jw
friends

first one in at least 5 years.......wife does not want to sit in and i just told her if she does not, then i am not either.....this loss of faith thingy has really been rough on our marriage.......i have decided to not bring up a single issue i have........i will relate to them my illustration of the taxi driver who keeps giving out bad directions i posted yesterday.......i think what will surprise them maybe is that my loss of faith goes way beyond wt.......i have lost virtually faith in the bible and god......one has already told the "first place to start is to get going to the meetings again!"....lmao!!!.........

i hope their programed brains can grasp that maybe you need faith in a god first.....then find out what method (or book) he is using to educate us if he wants to....and then if you feel the need....look around to find out if there is a group of folks who all have similar beliefs.........this should be interesting...........oompa.

Joe Grundy

the earth is flat, the moon is made of green cheese, or that the Pope is Muslim

You mean they're not? And it doesn't all calculate to 1914?

Bugger it! Must rethink my new religion. Back soon.

Yours

C T Russell

39

Stupid Memorial

by PanzerZauberei in

jw
friends

well, i am gonna have to go again because my wife wants to go this year.

she missed last year because she was sick and was so depressed about it for a month after because of the guilt her stupid family laid upon my poor darling.

last night she was visiting her dad (the only one who didn't guilt her) and he asked if she was going to go this year.

Joe Grundy

I have never been a dub.

I went to one of these a couple of years ago, thinking my JW neighbours/friends could get some brownie points from my attendance. I think I spoiled that by having a cigarette outside (before and after) and because I learned a couple of Hebrew words ('have a good passover - 'tov' something) which I said to the people either side of me when they passed the goodies round.

All brownie points were cancelled the following week when a young Filipina lady moved in with me. All I can say is that I'm glad that she is a roman catholic 'cos she seems to have violated all the points on the dubs' d/f list. Luckily, of course, not being dubs we never had to go before a JC to outline our 'sins'. But she liked talking about stuff in great detail and would probably have enjoyed the discussion. There would not have been a dry seat in the house.

40

"And how old is the Proclaimers book?"

by passwordprotected in

i had a frank discussion with my parents yesterday that ended up in the cul-de-sac of "how did the organisation start?

" i told them that all they need to know about the origins of the org are in the proclaimers book, of how chuck started his own religion, or how he got his ideas from the adventists and a lovely fellow called barbour and how chuck preached that christ had returned in 1874 and that the last days had started in 1799.. my parents were unwilling to accept this, so i said, "read your proclaimers book!

y'know what my mum's answer to that was?.

Joe Grundy

I am an outsider (never a dub), worldly (very), and so my views and opinions may not count for much.

When Russell started his religion (at a time and in a place where many new religions were kicking off) he was 'locked into' the 'science' of the time. Archaeology had not been accepted as a 'science', many thought - following Usher - that the world was 6000 years old, etc.

No problem - except for religions which taught (and still do, as far as I am aware) that their god was omniscient, all-powerful, and never changing. Whoops! Always big problems, of course, trying to reconcile the killing, raping, pillaging god of the OT with the Pauline liberal stuff in the NT, but as far as Russell and other loonies of their time (Smith, to name just one) were concerned they could speculate away 'safe' in their knowledge that nobody could contradict them.

Now we can - and the contradictions will only increase as scientific methods are developed.

To me, it's a bit like DNA - we can go back to 'cold cases' and re-investigate (cf. the poor bugger just released in the UK after serving 27 years for a murder he could not have committed).

If I was Mr Russell today, starting a new religion, I'd be a bit wary.

36

How did you feel about attending another church?

by digderidoo in

jw
friends

this question is for those who have attended another church since leaving the jw's.. i have considered attending a local church, firstly out of curiosity and secondly because i do enjoy discussing the bible with people and learning new thoughts on scripture.. the only thing that stops me though is crossing that line.

i guess it was a bit like when i first posted here, it took me ages to pluck up the courage and now what was the big deal?.

did anyone else have this feeling before attending another church, that feeling of crossing the line of no return.

Joe Grundy

'I agree with another poster here who said there is something about being in that 1,000 year old church, a place that has been used to worship God for so long that is pretty awe-inspiring.'

Near my home (West Wales, not Cyprus where I live now) is a chapel carved out of a cliff-face which is about 1,500 years old. Awe-inspiring. Where I live now is about 10 minutes walk away from where Saul/Paul met the (then) Roman governor and had his showdown and got whipped. I don't believe the bunkum, but inspiring nevertheless, and you can still see the mosaic floors and walk where these guys would have walked. (Acts, about ch. 9, iirc).

And there's a catacomb, right by the side of the road, where the jews held their services before the Romans went friendly to them. Still a 'holy' site where many people who want prayers answered tie a piece of cloth (or a kleenex nowadays, it seems) to a 'prayer tree'. Fascinating.

9

What Would Jesus Say to You and the Governing Body?

by AllTimeJeff in

would you be a jehovah's witness if you just read the bible by itself?

for that matter, without the aid of any religious influence, would one be apart of any religious group or body because of a specific mandate within the bible?

i realize this is at least a tricky and controversial question, best answered by the individual doing the reading of the bible.

Joe Grundy

I have never been a JW, so please feel free to disregard my opinion.

I live in Pahos, Cyprus, which is where Paul (allegedly) changed his name from Saul. Coincidentally or not the Roman governor here at that time was Paulus Serginus (I think). This was also where Saul/Paul had that curious showdown with 'Jesus bar-abbas' and blinded him to show that Paul was top-dog. (Covered in Acts, I think, but my knowledge is hazy).

I have stood on the mosaic floors where all this is supposed to have happened, and I have been to the 'whipping post' where Paul/Saul is alleged to have been whipped (also in Acts), about 5 minutes walk away.

My irreverent reply to the question in your post title is: 'Whatever Paul/Saul later thought would best fit in with his new religion'.

But, as I said, please feel free to disregard my opinion.